What are Catholics to think of Vatican II?
Vatican Council was a meeting of the world’s bishops for four
sessions between October 11, 1962 and December 8, 1965.
XXIII, in his opening speech to the Council (November 11,
1962), declared its aims to be the following:
Council in session
that the Catholic Faith should be kept and
but taught in the language of modern man by a magisterium
“which is predominantly pastoral in character,”
and this without resorting to any condemnations,
thus appealing to all
peoples (this Council was to be ecumenical, not only in the sense of being
a general council of the Church, but also in that of appealing to the
religiosity of all people of whatever religion).
Pope Paul VI agreed with his predecessor:
[Vatican II] was the most important [event] because... above all it sought to meet pastoral needs and, nourishing the flame of charity, it has made a great effort to reach not only the Christians still separated from communion with the Holy See, but also the whole human family. (Closing Brief,
December 8, 1965)
With such ideals, it is little wonder to find
Catholic teaching presented:
weakly (no definitions or condemnations),
confusedly (no technical, scholastic terminology),
and one-sidedly (so as to attract non-Catholics).
All such vague and ambiguous teaching, already liberal in its method, would be interpreted in its true liberal sense after the Council. Consider, for
How interpreted by Rome
The liturgy of the word is stressed
(Sacrosanctum Concilium, §9), and the banquet aspect (§10), as well as
active participation (§§11,14), and therefore the vernacular (§§36,54).
The New Mass (cf.
Catholics should pray with Protestants
(Unitatis Redintegratio, §§4,8).
Eucharistic hospitality (cf.
The Church of Christ subsists in (not is) the
Catholic Church (Lumen Gentium, §8),
It is also in “separated Churches” (Ut Unum
which has separated brethren in separated “Churches” (Unitatis Redintegratio, §3),
All the baptized are in Christ’s Church (Ut
Unum Sint, §42).
which ought to be as sisters (Unitatis
And so there is no need to convert, e.g., the
Seminarians should take into account modern
philosophy, progress in science (Optatam
Secular university studies and
psychology, and sociology (§20).
||Open spirituality and subjective morality.
Marriage and married love equated (Gaudium
et Spes, §§48,50).
Annulments fiasco (cf.
The Church renounces privileges civil authorities grant her (§76).
Catholic religion no longer to be the religion of any States.
Wish for a world authority (§82).
Full support for UN
Rite and formula of penance are to be revised
(Sacrosanctum Concilium §72).
Face to face confessions and General Absolutions.
Extreme Unction should be an Anointing of
the Sick (§§73,75).
New matter, form and subject (i.e., the sick, not just those in
danger of death).
Rome's guidelines are further interpreted as seen in the parishes is a
whole other story.
2 The documents of Vatican II are referred to by their
introductory Latin words, or by the initials of these.
3 Ut Unum Sint, Pope John Paul II, May 25, 1995.
4 Cf., The Joint International Commission for the
Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox
Church, which forbade mutual "proselytizing." Balamand, Lebanon, June
5 Does this affect the "substance of the
sacraments" over which the Church has no power? (Cf.,
Pius XII, quoted in
More gravely, the Council was hijacked by the liberal elements within the Church, who from the very beginning schemed to have rejected the
pre-conciliar preparatory schemas and replaced by progressive ones prepared by their own “experts.” The liberals were also able to get their members
onto the Council Commissions. The new schemas, passed as the Council’s decrees, constitutions, and declarations, contain, more or less explicitly,
some of the same doctrinal errors for which liberals in the past had been condemned. Let us take by way of example the following passages:
Vatican II teaching
"Man is the only creature
on earth that God has wanted for its own sake" (Gaudium
et Spes, §24),
"The Lord hath made all
things for Himself" (Prov. 16),
and "all things on earth
should be ordained to man" (§12).
...to help him save his soul.
Moreover, "by His
incarnation the Son of God has in a certain way united Himself with each
God assumed an
individual nature (e.g., Dz. 114),
so "Human nature... has
been raised in us also to a dignity beyond compare"
"...a little less than the angels..." (Ps. 8:6)
and because of "sublime
dignity of the human person" (§26),
|Only he who lives
well is worthy (Apoc. 3:4).
his "rights and duties
are universal and inviolate" (§26); including:
who buries his talent will be stripped of it
"The Vatican Council
declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom..."
(Dignitatis Humanae, §2),
condemned statement: "Liberty of conscience and of worship
is the proper right of every man..." (Pius IX, Quanta
"...all men should
be immune from coercion on the part of ...every human power so that,
within due limits, nobody is forced to act against his convictions nor is
anyone to be restrained from acting in accordance with his convictions..." (§2),
condemned statement: "...the best condition of society
is the one in which there is no acknowledgment by the government of the
duty of restraining... offenders of the Catholic religion, except insofar
as the public peace demands" (Pius IX, Quanta
"This right of the human
person to religious freedom must be given such recognition in the
constitutional order of society as will make it a civil right"
condemned statement: "Liberty of conscience and of worship
... should be proclaimed and asserted by law in every correctly
established society..." (Pius IX, Quanta Cura)
"...the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using (separated
churches) as means of salvation" (Unitatis Redintegratio,
§3), and so,
"ecumenical action should be
encouraged so that ... Catholics might cooperate with their separated
brethren ...by a common profession before the nations of faith in God and
in Jesus Christ..." (Ad Gentes,
concerning non-Christian religions: "The Catholic Church rejects
nothing of what is good and holy in these religions. She has a high
regard for the manner of life and conduct..." (Nostra
"All the gods of the
Gentiles are devils." Ps. 95. "... beware lest thou have a
mind to imitate the abominations of those nations" (Dt. 18:9).
consecration confers, together with the office of sanctifying, the duty
also of teaching and ruling..." (§21).
dignity, in fact, depends immediately on God as to the power of orders,
and on the Apostolic See as to the power of jurisdiction..." (Deesemus Nos, Pius VI).
The Council itself both encouraged liberal trends (and its encouragement became post-conciliar Vatican policy) and departed from traditional
Catholic teaching, but it has no authority for either (principle
Our position must be:
...we refuse ...to follow the Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies which became clearly manifest during the Second Vatican Council and, after the Council, in all the reforms which issued from
Declaration of Archbishop Lefebvre)
And it is neo-Modernist tendencies that the Council is all about ("...Pope
John Paull II makes not Holy Scripture, but rather Assisi, the shibboleth for
the current understanding of the Council." Pope John Paul
II's Theological Journey to the Prayer Meeting of Religions in Assisi, Part I,
p. 46 [appendix 2]).
But wasn't the Council infallible?
Not by reason of the extraordinary magisterium, for it refused to define anything. Pope Paul VI himself, in an audience on January 12, 1966, said
that it “had avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner dogmas
affected by the mark of infallibility.” (cf. the declaration of the Theological
Commission of March 6, 1964, and repeated by the Council's General Secretary
on November 16, 1964: "In view of conciliar practice and the
pastoral purpose of the present Council, this sacred Synod defines matters
of faith or morals as binding on the Church only when the Synod itself
openly declares so." It never did.)
Nor by reason of the ordinary universal magisterium,
because this is not a defining power, but one of passing on what was always
believed. The “universality” in question is not just one of place (all bishops) but also of time (always)
(cf., Vatican I and
Nor even by reason of the simply authentic magisterium, because the object of all magisterium is the deposit of faith to be guarded sacredly and expounded faithfully (Vatican I,
Dz 1836), and not to adopt as Catholic doctrine the “best
expressed values of two centuries of ‘liberal culture,’” even if they are
Ratzinger, Gesu, November 1984, p. 72; cf. Gaudium et
Spes, §§11, 44).
More on this topic
Reforming the crisis:
Roberto de Mattei observes
never repeats itself exactly but the past helps us to understand
the present. In the
16th century, the Catholic Church went through an unprecedented
50-year assessment of Vatican II
The response given by the Society! I think that everything is
summed up in one word, and that is Archbishop Lefebvre. All that
we have, all that we do, we have received from Archbishop
Lefebvre... 1-18-2013 DICI
Is the SSPX heretical?
4-part reply to Archbishop Mueller's recent statement that
Vatican II must be accepted as an integral part of the magisterium or be considered heretical...
The Synod on the New Evangelization in the Spirit of Vatican II
The Synod admits that the new evangelization is “urgent”
in de-Christianized modern society, but it nonetheless wishes to
see the Council provide the means to answer this emergency...
Can we commemorate the Council?
Recently an academic was bold enough to compare the celebration
of the 50th anniversary of the opening of Vatican II on October
11, 1962, with the secular ceremonies held in 1989 in honor of
the 200th anniversary of the French Revolution...
Misplaced conciliar optimism
50 years after the opening of Vatican II, we are quite far from
the optimism of John XXIII, who declared on October 11, 1962: "It
seems to Us necessary to state our complete disagreement with
those prophets of gloom who always announce catastrophes"... 10-26-2012
Washington Post: SSPX has solution to Vatican II debacle!
"And the SSPX, a
traditionalist order of priests, has forced the Vatican to
address the substance of the Second Vatican Council..." 10-25-2012
The Second Vatican Council: A History Never Written
certainly what many a traditionalist thinks about this major
Church event of the 20th century. The real history of the
Council needs to be written-up right! Well, this in fact is the title of a non-traditional
professor, Roberto de Mattei offering a distinct viewpoint from what
the Bologna school has offered since then...
Vatican II: a "stupefying superficiality" of Magisterium
Vatican II, a Much-Needed Discussion, Msgr. Gherardini
wrote: "With a stupefying superficiality they stretched out over
the previous Magisterium a veil, or a shroud, preventing the
observer from taking his bearings from the past, from the
Tradition that is a constitutive part of the Church and the
central pillar of Christianity..." 10-12-2012
Some notes on the resolution of the crisis in the Church
Learning from history how the crises of the Church were solved
in the past, the expectation and/or demand of a total reversal
of Rome’s present positions as a pre-condition to our “reunion”
appear to be utopian and illusory.
seem to be expecting the Pope to fall on his knees, cry out
his mea culpa, apologize before the whole world and
retract everything that has been done since Vatican II...
"Not all of Vatican II is binding": Analyzing the comments of
enough, the two most controversial documents" for the SSPX -
those on religious freedom and on relations with non-Christians
- "do not have a binding doctrinal content, so one can
dialogue about them," the cardinal said...
Catholic Faith or the Triumph of the Will?
but nowhere does anyone ever find the Church of Christ -
infallible and divinely prudent at one and the same time -
requiring a sweeping wholehearted acceptance of everything
doctrinal, and pastoral (as opposed to dogmatic) that every
ecumenical council has proclaimed...
Gherardini agrees with SSPX in new book about Vatican II
Msgr. Gherardini is a phenomenon producing seismic reactions in
the Roman milieu. His is a dissenting voice in the all too
common chorus of Hosanna in praise of the past Council...
Is recognizing the SSPX questioning the Council?
rift between the Holy See and the SSPX arises because the
Society rejects these particular elements of Vatican II
[religious liberty, ecumenism, collegiality], not because of an
intention on the part of the Holy See to defend Vatican II as a
“Magisterium or living tradition?”, Fr. Gleize denounces
a false dilemma
"Why this confusion? Why reduce the living magisterium
to the magisterium of the present? Because since Vatican
II they have been trying to invent a new magisterium.
The magisterium is redefined, because its task [now] is
to express the continuity of a subject and no longer the
continuity of an object..."
SSPX answers Roman expert
L’Osservatore Romano of December 2, 2011, published a study
by Msgr. Fernando Ocariz, one of the four experts who
represented the Holy See during the recent doctrinal discussions
with the SSPX October 2009-April 2011). The central question of
the magisterial value of the Second Vatican Council is addressed
straightforwardly, yet nevertheless insufficiently...
Debate about Vatican II: Fr. Gleize responds to Msgr. Ocariz
least 4 points, the teachings of Vatican II are obviously in
logical contradiction to the pronouncements of the previous
traditional Magisterium, so that it is impossible to interpret
them in keeping with the other teachings already contained in
the earlier documents of the Church’s Magisterium...
Msgr. Gherardini: Vatican II is not a super-dogma
translation of an insightful article by Msgr. Gherardini which
provides an answer to Msgr. Ocariz's recent published defense of
Vatican II. The article causes one to ask: If the Second
Vatican Council is part of the Magisterium what adherence must
be given to its text?
Cardinal says post-conciliar Church is historically &
"But there cannot be, nor could there be, a pre-Conciliar
Church and a post-Conciliar Church! If this could be so, the
second one—ours—would be historically and theologically
Roman Debates on the eve of Vatican II’s golden
rather encouraging to witness the controversy over the conciliar
era broaden its front and coming from Rome. Fireworks are
already sending sparks from all sides, on the eve of the golden
jubilee of the opening of the Council...
Fissures in the impregnable walls of Vatican II: a petition to
SSPX.ORG commentary and some extracts about DICI's posting, "50
Catholic leaders petition Pope Benedict XVI for a more in-depth
examination of the Second Vatican Council"
50 Catholic leaders petition Pope Benedict XVI for a
more in-depth examination of the Second Vatican Council
"In our souls and consciences as believers,
this petition, written with all deference toward You,
seems perfectly in harmony, we dare say, with the work
of restoring, renewing and purifying the Church Militant
that Your Holiness has courageously undertaken, despite
resistance and difficulties of all sorts that are known
Second Ecumenical Vatican Council: a Debate That Has Not Taken
by Msgr. Brunero Gherardini
This book is a sequel to The Second Ecumenical
Vatican Council: a Debate To Be Opened, that
appeared in 2009. In this new work, Msgr. Gherardini
does not stop at deploring that the debate on Vatican II
shouldn't take place, he even shows why it would be more
indispensable than ever today. And above all, he indicates
how this debate could be opened, giving the reader the
first elements of a rigorous analysis, far from sterile
invectives and blind ovations...
Vatican II: a debate between Romano Amerio, Msgr.
Gherardini and Msgr. Pozzo
A brief analysis on the "authentic interpretation" of
Two Key Points for
the Church's Recovery
Some insightful solutions for ending the ecclesiastical crisis 10-12-2010
Two Interpretations of Vatican II: Myth or Reality?
the two opposing views of the Council. Includes the
article "The Erosion of the Council's Authority"
Reply of Archbishop Lefebvre to Cardinal Ottaviani after
Written in December
1966, nearly a year after the conclusion of Vatican II,
Archbishop Lefebvre details the confusion that was already
occurring so early in the missionary Africa amongst the
Holy Ghost Fathers
Archbishop Lefebvre Preparing the Council (1959 - 1962)
A brief story about Archbishop
Lefebvre's preparing the original schema for Vatican II
How are Catholics to respond to the present crisis in the Church?
Fr. Peter Scott gives an
excellent analysis and practical answers to this important
Post-Conciliar Church: is it a new religion?
This Catholic FAQ makes the proper
distinctions while showing the revolutionary nature of Vatican
Fr. Basil Wrighton explains this keynote error of Vatican II and
the liberal machinations that caused its adoption by
This classic 1982 article by Fr. Wrighton demonstrates how "the spirit of Vatican II"
is protestantizing Catholics
Is belief in the Catholic Faith "left", "right" or "center"?
Supposedly after Vatican II, such groups do not indeed exist and
exemplify how closely Catholics adhere to the "super" Council. This philosophical defense by Dr. Peter Chojnowski demolishes
such a liberal view
We Make of Assisi I & II?
dangerous theological mentalities of Assisi I (held in 1986) and its
devastating consequences. Also applicable to Assisi II (2002).
Include further related materials